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Is There Ever A Good Time To Rip Off Your Buddy?

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Hey Doc,

I'm involved in a messy situation I hope you can guide me through.

I've known Erica and her ex-boyfriend, Jeff, for exactly the same amount of time (I met them when they were dating each other). About a month ago, they broke up. (Jeff initiated it.) Afterwards, Erica called and invited me out to shoot pool. I went, we had a good time, and we started hanging out together more often. I was attracted to her, but since Jeff is a friend of mine and her ex, I felt that I should "ask permission" before trying to pursue Erica. I did just that. He said "no," so I backed off.

The next day Erica called and said Jeff had phoned her at 1:30 in the morning and asked whether there was anything between the two of us.

This bothered me. First of all, he should have taken my word that nothing was going on. Second, after their breakup, he never called Erica once, except to ask if there was something between us.

Well, she and I continued to hang out and have a good time. Then one day she called and informed me that we were "just friends," even though I apparently wanted something more than a friendship. Who told you this? I asked her. She let out that Jeff had told her things that I never said. I smoothed things out, and she and I hung out again the next night.

The next morning Erica called and said "I don't think we should hang out anymore." After asking questions and getting nowhere, I finally said that if that was what she wanted, then I wouldn't try to change her mind. She told me I would figure it out. This is what I've come to decide might be going on:

1. Jeff has said something else to her that damages my "credibility."
2. She thinks I still have feelings for her.
3. She's just plain angry about something.
4. She has feelings for me. (This is what some of my friends think.)
5. Erica and Jeff are back together. (This is what I really think.)

Doc, I don't want to lose two friends, and I definitely don't want to lose Erica as a friend and potential love interest. Help me, please.

Henry - who's stuck somewhere in between


Hi Henry,

Your friend denied you permission to hit on his ex. What you should have addressed up front was how close you were to this guy, how long you've known him, and whether you could live without him as a friend, then proceeded -- with extreme caution -- from there. Most times it doesn't work out with a woman, and you end up destroying a relationship with a buddy. So the moral of the story is never mess with the other guy's ex, even if he tells you to go ahead and knock yourself out. It flies in the face of one of the most important things in life - loyalty. And even though the exes protest that it's over forever and they're just good friends now, there are still emotional ties. And that's what you were messing with here. So unless you're willing to write your guy friend off, you have to think long and hard about you're about to do.

Now I'll let you in on something, Henry. Jeff didn't initiate this breakup -- Erica did. To you Psych majors, women do the dumping up 90% of the time in the dating game. And by the way, who told you that Jeff was the instigator of the breakup? Were you there to witness it? It amazes me how a man will suck up any slop that some pretty female throws at him when he's gone over her. He'll believe two and two equals seven if she tells him it does! As my cousin Fast Eddie Love says, "When it comes to women, men are complete idiots!" (Of course your friend's a fool, too, for calling his ex at one-thirty in the morning. That's called begging. He knows nothing -- maybe even less than you do, Henry.)

I notice that you got enough hang-out time in with Erica before you asked Jeff's "permission" to date her. Why didn't you do that straight out of the gate, dude? Because you were already making time with her, that's why. You made sure you liked this girl before you called your buddy, and that's why it took you so long. Don't con yourself, and don't try to con me. As Sal "The Fish" Love puts it, "A guy who tries to fool himself is the biggest fool of all!"

So what was the upshot of all your slick maneuvering, Henry? You got dumped. And you don't know why. When women dump you, they always give you the second, third, and fourth reasons why they're dumping you. The real reason is called low Interest Level. Next! So after getting the brush, what do you go and do? Work your way into hanging out with Erica again the next night! You're the exact antithesis of Challenge! Why not try staying away from this girl for four or five days and give her a chance to miss you?

WHEN SHE SAID YOU'D FIGURE IT OUT, SHE OVERRATED YOU, PAL. So I'll do the figuring for you. Let's look at your delusions one by one.

1. It doesn't matter what Jeff said about you, because only YOU lowered Erica's Interest Level.
2. Erica doesn't think about your feelings, because she has none for you.
3. Erica's angry, all right. She's angry because she spent too much time with you.
4. Sure, Erica has feelings for you. And on the way home tonight, you're going to be abducted by Bigfoot.
5. Yep, Erica and Jeff are back together. But you had to turn her off before she went back to him.

Dear Henry: You've been smoking too much loco weed. Lose two friends? As long as they're making out, they don't care about you. They're so happy to be back together, you haven't even made a blip on their radar screen.

Remember, guys: women don't lie, and men don't listen.

About the Author
Doc Love is a talk show host and entertainment speaker who coaches men in his seminars. For the past 30 years he has asked thousands of women, "Why do you stay with one man versus another?" Get a new love advice article from Doc Love every week!